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chonjurer

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3.5 problematic spell forum ( 07:16:23 ThuAug 21 2003 )

Due to email requests I have revamped it for 3.5, and if anyone wants to contribute (or steal for campaigns), here's the link:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86768&perpage=30&pagenumber=1
[1 edits; Last edit by chonjurer at 16:42:01 Sat Aug 23 2003]

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Medesha

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 17:37:54 ThuAug 21 2003 )

Yay!

Sure wish I'd read that before I allowed Oberoni to take Geas. :sad:

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canamrock

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 19:52:41 ThuAug 21 2003 )

lol Your services for the community are great, oh Chonjuric one...

:bldcool:

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fbmf

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 19:59:32 ThuAug 21 2003 )

It will be put to good use, chonj. Thanks.

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Tae_Kwon_Dan

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 15:59:19 FriAug 22 2003 )

Quote:

Well I you'll just have to live with your interpretation then. Guess you'll have to just deal with bad rulings while you wait for an "official" response.

Why is that people assume when you're griping about something in an official capacity that you haven't figured out how to deal with the problem yourself? :nonono:

chonj used the argument I thought about bringing up with Andy on the SC thing in there too. I thought about asking that if by his logic things I killed with my Finger of Death ray in Beholder form came back to life when I changed back. That would make things mighty inconvenient.

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chonjurer

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 16:36:47 FriAug 22 2003 )

I'm glad that you guys will put it to use... it makes me tingly inside to know that I am being useful. :grin:

Quote: Tae_Kwon_Dan at 15:59:19 Fri Aug 22 2003

chonj used the argument I thought about bringing up with Andy on the SC thing in there too. I thought about asking that if by his logic things I killed with my Finger of Death ray in Beholder form came back to life when I changed back. That would make things mighty inconvenient.

By Andy's "logic", you might. There is a difference between being a legal target and no longer possessing an ability, however.

But never, ever, do instantaneous spells stop working because you are currently an invalid target. The time of casting is all that matters.

Heck, even if you get polymorphed into a rock (which is not a valid target for a wish to increase a mental stat), you keep the inceased mental stats from previous Wishes in rock form (as you don't lose your mental stats in rock form).

It just defies explanation that a game designer would start claiming such things.

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zuche

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 03:42:54 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: chonjurer at 16:36:47 Fri Aug 22 2003

But never, ever, do instantaneous spells stop working because you are currently an invalid target. The time of casting is all that matters.

Probably not valid to this point, since it's non-core but check the darkenbeast entry in Monsters of Faerun if you get a chance. The spell that creates them has an instantaneous effect, but can be negated by dispel magic and ends when the creature is hit by sunlight.

I find it interesting, because it seems to mean that the creature retains darkenbeast form in an anti-magic shell, as is appropriate to an instantaneous effect, yet somehow can still be "dispelled."

I can see a logic to it, just as I can see a logic to the idea that you get Benefit A permanently, as long as you still fulfill the terms of Condition B.

Aside from permanent effects (which can be dispelled and are subject to antimagic), how do you address that concept without instantaneous effects? I think the concept has merit, but I'm not seeing how you address it as the rules currently stand, with no definition of duration that fills the gap between permanent or instantaneous.

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canamrock

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 04:34:21 SatAug 23 2003 )

They made the exact same mistake with the first printing version of Hallow about dispelling instantaneous effects.

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 04:56:28 SatAug 23 2003 )

OK, I should have caveated that statement: it only ends if there is a specific proviso listed in the spell that a specific effect can end it. But they are so few and far between that they are the exception, not the rule.

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Oberoni

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 07:44:45 SatAug 23 2003 )

1. Something is funny about your link, it takes to me a page that I'm not allowed to access. If I just go to the Wizards boards and open it the old-fashioned way, it works fine.

btw, here's your link and the 'old-fashioned way' link:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=85506

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=86768&perpage=30&pagenumber=1

The latter is the one that works.

2. Keep ignoring Roxtard. I am tempted to respond with my usual style when he's around, but I keep making my Will save. You are doing the right thing in not responding to him. Did you turn him down for a prom date once or something?

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- Lago_AM3P, on the 3.5 Dragon Disciple

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Zherog

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 15:32:17 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: Oberoni at 07:44:45 Sat Aug 23 2003

2. Keep ignoring Roxtard. I am tempted to respond with my usual style when he's around, but I keep making my Will save. You are doing the right thing in not responding to him.

Alas, I failed my will save and got sucked into why some threads are evil and others are not - although only briefly. I'm so ashamed! :nonono:

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zuche

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 16:43:13 SatAug 23 2003 )

I will confess ignorance on this matter. Why wouldn't it be better to ask the board to ignore his posts for you?

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chonjurer

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 16:46:58 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: Oberoni at 07:44:45 Sat Aug 23 2003

1. Something is funny about your link, it takes to me a page that I'm not allowed to access.

Things that make you go hmmm.... thanks for the info - I've changed the link.

Quote:

2. Keep ignoring Roxtard. I am tempted to respond with my usual style when he's around, but I keep making my Will save. You are doing the right thing in not responding to him.

Apparently I am getting "warned" (soft warning) for harrassment now.

:tjonjurer:

Quote:

Did you turn him down for a prom date once or something?

I have a feeling that he hangs out on another board where old nemesis like Lady D and her banned husband reside as well, where animosity and resentment against me festers to magnamonious proportions until they get a chance to let it all out on the WOTC boards when I make the mistake of posting a thread.

Every time things get more involved, a pack of lackies (Lady D included) shows up. Unfortunately for me, I don't recruit yes-men to do sniping for me.

Zherog: Your transgressions pale in comparison to mine. [1 edits; Last edit by chonjurer at 16:48:00 Sat Aug 23 2003]

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Tae_Kwon_Dan

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 17:10:17 SatAug 23 2003 )

That's okay I got a soft warning for using the word wang in a post. :tjonjurer:

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Boulie_98

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 17:33:56 SatAug 23 2003 )

Wang? What's wrong with wang?

:dance:

What's a soft warning btw? Any different from the regular variety? :confused:

[1 edits; Last edit by Boulie_98 at 17:36:57 Sat Aug 23 2003]

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Tae_Kwon_Dan

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 17:36:37 SatAug 23 2003 )

It's an email basically saying please cease and desist or you will get a real warning.

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WampaX on 3.5

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Boulie_98

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 17:40:05 SatAug 23 2003 )

Hmm, there are a lot of posters there saying worse things than wang, and doing so repeatedly...

Oh well.

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Unholydragoon

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 18:23:27 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: chonjurer

Apparently I am getting "warned" (soft warning) for harrassment now.

Hey, I had the same thing happen on that darkness thread. To his credit (bear with me...) Roxtard emailed me asking if I had actually been insulted, as we both gotten soft warned in that thread. I got the warning for the following:

Quote: Myself

I see why so many suggest ignoring ye.

Coupled with the hard warning I got a couple of days agao, methinks they are building a case agaisnt any poster that doesn't "play nice" and tout the party line. :nonono:

[1 edits; Last edit by Ivellios_Nailo at 18:26:58 Sat Aug 23 2003]

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Zherog

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 18:32:01 SatAug 23 2003 )

chonj - my transgressions pale to yours only because I got busy at work and was unable to respond to Rox while thoroughly irritated. At least I wasn't the only one arguing over the [evil] designator.

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Oberoni

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 21:11:30 SatAug 23 2003 )

This soft warning thing is funny.

chonjurer, you're getting warned for pointing out that you have the one man who has a hard-on for hating you on "ignore?" That's hilarious in the right context.

Oh well--at least they're soft warnings--but crap, I don't understand. I said things to and about Dalaeck on those boards (in the fairly recent past) that are pure, straightforward insults, and I never heard a word on it.

Apparently this soft warning thing is new, then. Oh well, I guess it still beats a regular warning.

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canamrock

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 21:34:35 SatAug 23 2003 )

That's because you likely don't have a history of insulting people that the WizO's like, I think. lol

:bldcool:

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chonjurer

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 22:17:07 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: Tae_Kwon_Dan at 17:10:17 Sat Aug 23 2003

That's okay I got a soft warning for using the word wang in a post.

I'm waiting for wombat to achieve "undesirable" status.

UHD: Your pain is mine in this instance. Roxlimn has has been cause of every single WizO email I've had in the past year.

Zherog: may work keep you from it then. I'm sure you get enough irritation at work that you don't need it on the WOTC boards too. :wink:

I'm really trying to make that thread a productive one, but he keeps chasing people away. Shatteredtower, HS, Lago and many others have provided invaluable insights so far, and I want it to continue.

Quote: Oberoni

chonjurer, you're getting warned for pointing out that you have the one man who has a hard-on for hating you on "ignore?"

Yep. The email the WizOs sent me specifically referenced that post (which has since been deleted).

:tjonjurer:

canamrock: Somehow I think that you're closer to the mark than you may think (or not, if you really are Pony :wink:

). The Krag incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth for unknown, behind-the-scenes alliances. [1 edits; Last edit by chonjurer at 22:17:41 Sat Aug 23 2003]

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zuche

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 22:22:14 SatAug 23 2003 )

Sorry, did I ask an inappropriate question about the WotC boards "Ignore" button? I'm not trying to instruct anyone here on this. I'm trying to understand the position, because I suspect there's at least one very good reason for it and would like to know what it is.

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canamrock

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Re: 3.5 problematic spell forum ( 22:29:14 SatAug 23 2003 )

Quote: chonjurer at 22:17:07 Sat Aug 23 2003

canamrock: Somehow I think that you're closer to the mark than you may think (or not, if you really are Pony ). The Krag incidents left me with a bad taste in my mouth for unknown, behind-the-scenes alliances.

Not sure about Krag, but I can tell you from my own experience I know that it can happen. If I were to become a WizO, I know that you would all figure out who I was (the WizO that gives soft warnings for negative-logic-quotients), and I'd probably be celebrating it here anyhow. lol

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