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rapanui
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Re: silence! ( 19:59:57 MonApr 12 2004 )

I won't flame, but I'll just point out that there are no valid historical documents to indicate that anyone named Jeshua partook in the events mentioned. All documents alledging the fact are from well afterwards.

So, that reference to "journalists of the time" or whatever, is pure BS.

  
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Darth_KTrava
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Re: silence! ( 22:36:11 MonApr 12 2004 )

To me, this looks like part of another thread. So, all I gotta say is :confused: Since I have no frellin' clue what this was all about....



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Re: silence! ( 07:42:14 TueApr 13 2004 )

Quote: rapanui at 19:59:57 Mon Apr 12 2004

I won't flame....

So, that reference to "journalists of the time" or whatever, is pure BS.


BS? Oh, you mean "believably so." Gotcha. Thanks for not flaming the topic.



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Re: silence! ( 13:17:19 TueApr 13 2004 )

I'm with KTrava. What exactly is going on here?

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Trekayan
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Re: silence! ( 04:43:50 WedApr 14 2004 )

All I wanted to do was commemorate the Easter season. Sorry, I bothered, I guess.



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Re: silence! ( 04:51:45 WedApr 14 2004 )

I don't think you should have to appologize for anything, Trekayan. I think some people were just a liitle confused as to the purpose and/or meaning of your post...



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Re: silence! ( 14:41:33 WedApr 14 2004 )

Are Bloodstone and I the only two who understood this post???



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Re: silence! ( 14:45:34 WedApr 14 2004 )

Define understood? I started to read it and understood that it was intended to be about Easter, but I didn't finish reading it. If I want to be preached at, I'll go to church and pay attention to the sermon.



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Count_Arioch_the_28th
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Re: silence! ( 15:00:22 WedApr 14 2004 )

Well, if the post bothers you, then don't read it, it's that simple.

As far as I know, Trek hasn't tied anyone down and forced them to read this post, you could have gone on and not read it.

At least, I don't think he has. :uptosomething:



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Re: silence! ( 15:02:24 WedApr 14 2004 )

And that was why I didn't read it, nor did I complain about it being here. I don't mind that T posted it - just not my sort of thing.

Ais asked a question, I answered.



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Mole_2
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Re: silence! ( 15:02:41 WedApr 14 2004 )

Quote: Trekayan at 06:55:28 Sat Apr 10 2004



One common thread remains in ALL of us. We sin!



Only because we were made that way.

We had no choice in the matter.

God on the other hand did.

Why did he create me as a sinner ?
That needed redeeming, by him, on his terms.

  
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Re: silence! ( 15:18:51 WedApr 14 2004 )

The OP was pretty self explanatory. It was the divigation by rapanui and Treky that I was questioning.

I do agree at least somewhat with Z, though. Shouldn't a thread like this be moved to Nifty Deliberations?

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Re: silence! ( 16:09:09 WedApr 14 2004 )

I don't think so. This is just one variation of a "Happy Easter" post.

If others want to debate the accurateness of Easter/religion in general, then they should go to Deliberations (*hint* *hint*).

  
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Re: silence! ( 16:23:16 WedApr 14 2004 )

And where should those of us who wish to ignore the issue go? :tongue: :tongue:

* runs and hides from the lead pipe that's sure to appear *



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Re: silence! ( 16:26:20 WedApr 14 2004 )

I can't tell you where to go, on grounds that it would violate the CoC.

  
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Aisling
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Re: silence! ( 22:25:04 WedApr 14 2004 )

Quote: Zherog

And where should those of us who wish to ignore the issue go?


Duh. Anywhere else! That's precisely why I don't go to Deliberations unless Brian sees something he thinks I should look at. I know I'll see something that will upset me.

Consequently, on the rare occasion that something is posted on this forum that upsets me, I usually ignore it unless it affects me personally.

To define "understood": I meant Bloodstone and I were the only ones who didn't post "What's going on here?" or the like.

For the record, although I share most of Treiky's beliefs and I like this post, I agree that such obviously religious messages don't belong on a board such as this. After all, we're not all Christians.
[1 edits; Last edit by Aisling at 22:29:53 Wed Apr 14 2004]



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rapanui
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Re: silence! ( 22:35:38 WedApr 14 2004 )

Believably so? Not quite.

BS :smile:

They have a show on your holy text planned for this season. I can't wait to see Shermer smack it around a little.

Thursday's episode will debunk the myth of romantic love and monogamy. :evildm:

  
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Re: silence! ( 22:37:08 WedApr 14 2004 )

Quote: Medesha at 16:09:09 Wed Apr 14 2004


If others want to debate the accurateness of Easter/religion in general, then they should go to Deliberations (*hint* *hint*).


Shall I split the thread?

  
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Aisling
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Re: silence! ( 22:45:21 WedApr 14 2004 )

I think perhaps you should.



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Trekayan
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Re: silence! ( 02:47:52 ThuApr 15 2004 )

While I believe I became a Christian in 1992, it's been a long haul. The first five years of my faith were exciting and fervent...Now, I look back on those years and wonder where the fervency has gone. There have been a lot of trials and tribulation, since September 13, 1992. ::sigh::

Hebrews 12: 1,2 has become and is stamped my Life Verse.

Every year around this time, I take a moment to Stop, Silence myself and reflect on what Jesus did to save us. One of my favorite tunes is "In the Light" by Charlie Peacock. Basically, it mentions are hunger to "be in the Light, as He is in the Light."

Often, I have doubted God and His Promises. It isn't that I don't believe He exists. It's just the fact, I feel that there is a brass ceiling between me and the heavens. It's hard to believe in promises when you can't see them. That's what it takes to have faith. Faith is our relationship with God. His side is called Grace.

I know that good works, following religious rituals and being a nice guy won't get me to heaven. It is only by His Grace and my belief in Him, will He take me there.

The purpose of this topic was to share the graces of God and remind those who would choose to accept the initial post that a Great Price was paid long ago. Messiah was cut off not for himself, but for us. I hope this post was helpful to some. :smile:



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Re: silence! ( 08:40:14 ThuApr 15 2004 )

Quote: rapanui at 22:35:38 Wed Apr 14 2004

Believably so? Not quite.

BS :smile:

They have a show on your holy text planned for this season. I can't wait to see Shermer smack it around a little.


Quote: Site

Sorry

We at Showtime Online express our apologies; however, these pages are intended for access only from within the United States.


Did the link provide any useful info?



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Re: silence! ( 08:51:14 ThuApr 15 2004 )

A little cut and past for Boulie then... hold on for a moment:

Ok, that was a bit more work then I was expecting, but there it is. No doubt the sware filter will have a field day.

For the record, I just started reading it my self and since i lack Showtime, I've never seen the show. As such, I got no idea yet if I will agree/ disagree/be offended by anything the webpage says.

In other words, I may have posted it but I got no clue at this time if I "endorse" any of it.

¿Comprende?
[1 edits; Last edit by Bloodstone at 09:04:18 Thu Apr 15 2004]



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Re: silence! ( 08:58:35 ThuApr 15 2004 )

Quote: From 'Topics'


New Episode
Thursday, April 15

Romantic love - it's a fantasy akin to believing in Santa Claus. Here's the truth - the first blush of love is a chemical reaction. And, like all drugs, it wears off after a while! We'll look into the myth of monogamy, and the industry that preys on those looking for love. If everybody watches, maybe we'll see fewer divorces, and that nutcase John Gray won't sell as many books!


Quote: For Community


Q: As a co-atheist, I've had this dragon to slay for awhile in the business world... How to get out of jury duty?


Penn: I would like to see many more Atheists and anti-death people ON jury duty. I think it's important.

Teller: Those who believe in the supernatural in any form should not be trusted to make life-and-death decisions about other people's lives. When I'm standing there as the accused, I want you -- an atheist -- in that jury box, not someone whose world is populated with capricious, vengeful, imaginary beings.


Q: According to the survey done by Michael Shermer, editor of Skeptic Magazine, men make up about 3/4 of the self-professed "skeptic" part of the population. Is there something about sex and/or gender that leads to this imbalance? Why do men tend to be more skeptical, and women less? response

Penn: That's not the way I would state this. I think skepticism is a feminist issue. What is it in our society that makes women victims on this front, and why do we think that's okay? Why are most of the bunco scams run on elderly women? Why is most of the psychic spoon done to lonely middle-aged women. It's very sad. I have no idea why we're doing this -- it should be a NOW issue. And the fact that it's not a NOW issue, even though so much money is being taken from women, is a very deep and sad problem.

Teller: Women are still fighting roles, imposed primarily by religion over the course of thousands of years, that require them to go all goo-goo eyed over anything a man says. In the twentieth century we made good progress, but there's lots more work to do. I don't recall the wording of the survey, but I'm a little suspicious of the "self-professed" angle. Women may not proclaim themselves skeptics on surveys -- it's not very ladylike -- but that doesn't really tell us whether they see through bullspoon better or worse than men.

Q: Stop going after weirdoes and morons and put your focus on the corporations and gov't. That is where the bullspoon really is and these are the lies that hurt the people and the country.

Penn: I'm inclined to agree, but we have to go with what we know. Teller and I have been looking into to the kinds of things the shows are about for years and have some idea what we're talking about. The government scams may be too much for cheap carny trash to address. But, I'm with you -- I'd like more of that on TV (Maybe I mean "any of that on TV").

Teller: As somebody who is partner in a perfectly fine corporation that gives good value for its entertainment dollar, I don't think you can dismiss corporations in one giant sweep. Part of the point of our show, however, is to get people in the habit of distinguishing products and services that make a profit honestly, and those that don't. It has, however, been a long time since I saw effects of government that I did not consider pure crap designed to serve incumbents and cronies while it limits our individual freedoms.


Q: What do you two fight over? Is there something that you just can't agree on?

Penn: We're sober, libertarian, Atheist, skeptics. We're always on time and we take our work seriously. Neither one of us has ever even been late for a show. So, what's to fight over? We fight over every moment of Penn & Teller stuff with a nit picking, pedantic, ridiculous carefulness that would crack anyone else. But, that's fun.

Teller: All we fight about is the stuff we create together. We're very blunt. "That's not an idea," and, "That doesn't add up to anything," and, "Don't you know that was already done in [insert movie or TV show title here]," are three of our most common sneers.


Q: Here we have a major American landmark, a world-renowned government facility filled with thousands of people, as well as four airliners with hundreds of passengers, all terrified out of their wits knowing they're all about to die a horrible senseless death... No psychics saw 9/11 coming, because there are no psychics, only scumbags preying on the innocent faith of their own species to make an easy buck. I don't think Penn and Teller went far enough on this issue, and I'd love to give them a chance to directly address this point.

Penn: A friend of mine asks every psychic "what were you feeling on 9/10/00?" It's a perfect question. No one gave even the slightest hint. Even as the planes hit, no one said it was martyrs doing this. It's a great point. It wasn't a point we chose to hit, but it's a great one.

Teller: If there existed even one psychic who had predicted that disaster, we'd be very, very interested. But, nope. What haunts me about 9/11 is the horrible knowledge that those who did the deed did it to further the divine will. Whenever we hear a politician bless killing, we should think twice.

Q: Why the red fingernail?

Penn: It means I killed a kumquating webmaster for asking personal questions.


Q: Have you thought about two-part or 1-hour specials? It would be extraordinarily edifying to perhaps use the additional half hour to elucidate further the background, context and historical underpinnings of the topic in question. Perhaps materials of a more scientific bent, were it warranted. Oh yeah, and can we have more of "kumquat"? That's my favorite word, and I love hearing it on TV. kumquat, it makes me happy.

Penn: We thought a lot about the time frame. We're doing jokes and, with luck opening up some thoughts. Although mostly what we're doing is preaching to a converted that never get a chance to be preached to. I believe that many of the viewers already agree with us but enjoy hearing a rare POV for TV. A half hour seems nice and light for that task. kumquat.

Teller: I can assure you your second wish will be our command. On the first wish: I very much like the challenge of squeezing our whole point into half an hour. Though we like to back up and prove our arguments, our main job here is to get people to laugh with a hyena level of mockery. We want to give you just enough that you can make enemies over lunch.

Q: Who's the handsome one? Who's the smart one?

Teller: Eminem.

Penn: Paul was cute they didn't have a handsome one and I think they called John smart. George and Ringo were never spoon.

Q: Is there any way that you could make these scammers really, really uncomfortable? Infest their undergarments with cockroaches or leeches or something? What cruel pranks would you like to pull on these people if you could? And not be arrested, that is...

Penn: No, I really have no desire to be cruel to believers. I feel sad for them being scammed. As far as the people perpetuating the scams, well, there is no discomfort that's close to right for them. What they are doing is so evil that "discomfort" is not appropriate.

Teller: How about putting their shenanigans on TV and showing the whole world exactly what we're up to? That seems much worse than cockroaches.

Q: Which segments do you personally connect with the most?

Teller: I had a sore neck ten years ago. A friend recommended a chiropractor. The chiropractor whacked the hell out of me several times in one session. The three top vertebrae of my back are permanently damaged. I wrote letters to all the appropriate medical boards, but nobody, nobody ever responded. Now I'm responding. May my stupidity and pain save others from making the same mistakes!

Penn: The exploitation of grief by those who pretend to talk to the dead breaks my heart.


Q: It seems that with all the energy you used to try to debunk John Edward, who I feel is legit, that you must really be hiding some things in your past. What skeletons are in your closet? What person or businesses or maybe comedy clubs or individuals have you ripped off in your lifetime that you are so afraid of a psychic exposing your dirty little deeds?

Penn: Do you think that saying you don't believe in a psychic would protect you from that? It seems that John Edward doesn't find ANYTHING that isn't told to him out right or that could be passed off as a guess. What do you think we're afraid of? I must have missed that episode, has he told secrets like that? Why aren't the people of 9-11 telling him where the next terrorist strike will be? Why has there been NO information that made the news.

Yes, I've done things I'm ashamed of. I don't know as we played any comedy clubs, so we didn't rip any off. I don't believe we've ripped off any performers. As a matter of fact, I can't think of anything I'm ashamed of that I'm hiding; most the stuff has been broadcast or at least discussed on Howard Stern.

Do you really think that if psychics really did have power the best way to protect yourself against their prying eyes would be to attack them? Wouldn't you be better off not calling attention to yourself? I mean, if there was a horrible secret that I thought John Edward could see, why would I make the move on the chessboard to antagonize him, wouldn't I want to lay low and sing his praises? Like you?

If you want a list of the things I'm ashamed of, I guess I could give that to you, but there's nothing sexy or interesting. There's no sex stuff that I haven't talked about publicly. I'm close to all of my family. I haven't stolen any money. I've never done any drugs. I haven't stolen any material. I haven't missed a show. I've never hit anyone. I've done a lot of bad, but none of it would interest any tabloid. Nothing you could jerk off to.

Teller: You write, "...who I feel is legit." Is this supposed to convince me? If you feel that your turds are laced with gold, should I believe you? Just because you feel it?

Over the last thirty years I have been studying the history of "mediums" who have claimed to speak with the dead. The practice of mediumship as we know it is about a century and a half old. It was demonstrable bunk when it was started (by two prank-playing sisters) and it remains so today.

You babble about skeletons in closets. You think I hate John Edward because I'm afraid a ghost will give Edward material that would embarrass me. What a goofball idea. You think we need a spirit visitation to reveal that I'm not perfect? You flatter me. I'm sure at least one or two living people would happy to come forward and take care of that job.

Q: You talk and Teller risks his life doing all the work...Seems like a nice gig, did he lose a coin toss or what?

Penn: He's smaller than me


Q: I have experienced Deja Vu on more then one occasion. Is this in the same group as ESP? If not, could you explain the difference, and if so, is this a "valid" form of ESP?

Penn: I've seen a few explanations of this having to do with synapses firing, but I don't know enough about that or know that's it's true. I have never seen anyone even claim that there was real advance information. It's usually passed off as "a feeling." The "feeling" of ESP is fine, "I knew you were going to call" is a fine feeling, as long as you don't think there's real psychic information. The only tie-in with ESP is scumbags often talk about Deja Vu as proof of the "fact" that we all have ESP experiences.

And if you meant the album -- I like the Neil Young songs.

Teller: I have an eerie feeling I've heard this question before. The latest stuff I've read suggests that the Deja Vu sensation is just that: a sensation of familiarity, not tied to actual previous experience. It's as though there is a bit of a short circuit that gives you a feeling without it being tied to actual experience, not entirely unlike the way serious indigestion makes me dream about scary things.

Q: Is it a coincidence that all the suckers in the animal psychic sessions were women?

Penn: When you're dealing with scams, women seem to be the victims more often. This is true for bunco scams of most sorts. I've often said that the psychic rip-offs are a feminist issue. Our society seems to tell women that they're more "intuitive" and that's a way to say something very beautiful in a very ugly way. Being open-minded and loving does not mean being a sucker. Being skeptical is not being cynical. To me, they aren't even related. I would like to think of myself as intuitive, and certainly women (and men) that I care for have that quality -- but that doesn't mean "sucker."

Teller: I wasn't there for the editing; so I don't know whether we used just the most colorful responses or whether the victims were predominantly women. I think that at times shame can be a fine thing, and I think in our culture men are made to feel ashamed of showing their tender sides more than women -- which in this case is a good thing, since there seems to be an army of pet psychics and palmists ready to jump on anybody willing to show a little vulnerability.

Q: Man...The credits whip by way too fast for me to catch with the naked eye who does the music for "Bullspoon!" Can you tell me the name of the artist and better still, the song title as well? Let him know he's got a fan!

Penn: I've told him. It's (Doctor) Gary Stockdale. He's done all the music for P&T for years. We give him hard work and he does it perfectly. The theme song is called "That Bullspoon! Theme." You may be a big fan but not as big of a fan as I am.

Teller: That's Gary Stockdale, a disciple of Henry Mancini, who has been our principal composer for about fifteen years. He's astonishing; he can do anything there is in music. If you used to watch our "Sincity Spectacular" show, he was the cool looking bald guy who conducted the band, frequently sang, and composed all the music. He's a bloody genius, amazingly prolific and it's all glorious work. I always find it an amazing experience to be around him -- it gives me some idea what it must have been like to hang with Bach.


Q: Do you guys hang out together when you aren't working? Do you ever get sick of each other?

Penn: We work together all the time and our work time is very enjoyable. I would say outside of that, we "hang out" maybe once every month or two, you know a movie or dinner with a bunch of friends. A couple months ago Teller came over to my house to watch "Perry Mason" with some friends, but that's pretty rare. It's rare enough that I'm happy to see him, and that's a miracle.

Teller: We work together so much that it would be folly to go hang out. What would we say? "Hi, Penn. What did you do today?" "I worked all day with you, you idiot."

Q: What makes you think you have ANY qualifications to do anything other than entertain us with whacky magic tricks? No doubt you will find considerable BS to expose in areas that are well known frauds. I wonder if you have the personal integrity let alone the mental capacity to do an accurate and fair job on such topics as alternative medicine.

Penn: Yup, that's the way to attack us and it's exactly right. If you're looking for experts, we ain't them. It's as easy as that. But, we are people living in the USA trying hard to make sense out of the world. We use the expertise available to us and we try to tell the truth as we see it. If we're wrong, that's great -- it can sure be proved that these things are true very very easily. Anything that's true we'll have no effect on. We could do a "Bullspoon" on the speed of light, and it would mean nothing, it's proven and it's easy to show that the work is right. That doesn't seem to be true with what we've done. On some of the upcoming shows our position is much more modest, "There isn't evidence about second hand smoke" and "The environmental movement overstates some of it's claims." If we're wrong -- just prove it. That's all, just give us information. All the things we've debunked so far, can be proven very very easily -- why isn't anyone doing it? It's all-anecdotal and faith. Just prove us wrong -- it should be easy, we're cheesy Vegas magicians!

Teller: Magic is the art of creating false (but funny or beautiful) cause-and-effect relationships. That's our area of expertise. When we do it on a stage, the audience is fooled, but only for the moment, only in the theater. They know they're watching a show. They know it's all tricks. They do not go home and try to float in the air or catch bullets in their teeth.

When we see scam artists peddling false cause-and-effect as reality; when we see the tools of theater and poetry used to victimize the vulnerable; when we sick people submitting to "medical procedures" that belong in a Three Stooges movie; all this enrages us.

That rage drives the show. But it would be irresponsible to make an informational show without checking the facts. So we have a very conscientious team that does research, and consults world-class professionals. The physicians and scientists who were interviewed on the alternative medicine show are not actors. They are respected experts in their field. They supply the "integrity and mental capacity" you think we lack.

If we are wrong, please prove it. We'll welcome that. But to persuade us that we are wrong, you will have to present credible scientific evidence. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest more facts and less sarcasm.


Q: You've made many television appearances but this is the first appearance you've done on premium cable. Do you think that some of the topics you'll be covering would have been too sensitive for broadcast TV?

Teller: kumquat, yeah.

Penn: This bullspoon is too sensitive for anyone. We're going to find it's too sensitive for Showtime -- just you wait. -- we're going to find out.


Q: Which subjects do you think are going to generate a large outcry and/or surprise people the most? Is it deserved?

Teller: Even some of our creative staff are angry that we'd question the scientific honesty behind outlawing secondhand smoke as though it's attempted murder. The show that shocks me personally, though, is the one where we investigate Bottled Water. You need to see the show, but I'll just say: I now order tap water in restaurants and refill old Dasani bottles from the spigot.

Penn: It changes for everyone. Some people go ape spoon that we're saying people can't talk to the dead and people that take that in stride get all worked up about bottled water being bullspoon, or some environmentalists lying their asses off.

Q: Do you read the show's message boards? What do you think of the responses so far?

Penn: I try not to read reviews of any kind ever. They don't seem useful. But, I'm failing with this show, I have been to the message board and it fills me with joy. It makes me feel less alone.

Teller: The only ones I see are the ones Showtime forwards to me for such deep and thoughtful responses as this. I'm very pleased with the number of atheists who have responded with rejoicing to know they're not alone in the fox hole.



Quote: from 'About the Show'



Veteran producer Mark Wolper, Executive Producer Star Price and renowned master showmen Penn & Teller deliver a high-octane, weird, wacky, entertaining journey through some bizarre territory that no one else is brave enough to touch, with this Showtime reality series.

By their own admission, Penn & Teller have been dying to do a show like this. Confirmed skeptics and pro-science atheists (they refer to God as "an imaginary friend"), these magicians are big fans of the art of debunking.

Whether demonstrating how history's most perplexing magic acts are performed in their sell-out Las Vegas show and TV specials, or producing their own series that pulls the wool off the public's eyes, Penn & Teller's mission is to expose the truth to an otherwise desperate and gullible public.

In Penn & Teller: Bullspoon!, the crusaders utilize principles of magic and trickery, as well as good old fashioned "hidden camera" sting operations, to smoke out these nonsense peddlers and reveal how they operate.

They also call upon the scientific community for back-up. Penn & Teller have discovered that the evidence debunking bogus operatives exists in countless books, scientific papers and government-sponsored exposés - research that nobody else has presented to the public with such zeal, passion, and conviction.

As our increasingly anti-intellectual, anti-science culture moves on each day to new crackpot subject matters, Penn & Teller are there to aggressively shoot down whack-jobs and fuzzy thinkers, no matter where they originate.

Their attitude of serious, sober contemplation can be summed up in this quote about their current Las Vegas stage program: "We have been doing magic together for 25 years and are so sick of it we could spit. So, in the new show, we are moving into the field of religion and will be performing real miracles!"

No matter how popular a form of bullspoon is - and regardless of what deep pockets or beloved figures support it - Penn & Teller are pit bulls for the truth, poised to tear down these myths in the most jaw-dropping fashion possible with their trademark wit and off-center comic sensibilities.

Beware faux miracle workers, yogis, dervishes, televangelists, zealots and cult leaders. Penn & Teller have you in their cross-hairs with a new series that strives to spark controversy, headlines and water cooler fisticuffs!




---
"And Bloodstone is in charge of Slytherin because he's so evil and cruel and spiteful and rotten to the core..."
-Galahad_Knight...again
 
 
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Brad in the middle!!11!


Reply
Re: silence! ( 09:30:59 ThuApr 15 2004 )

Thanks! :smile:



---
Thin-skinned no-humor pansies! You tell 'em an ice breaker or two about women's liberationists, gays, environmentalists, several minorities, the homeless, a couple of religions, anorexics, obese people, the handicapped, old farts, baldness and people who walk real goofy 'cause they just had a vasectomy and suddenly they get all sensitive! Like I offended one of them or something?
~ Duckman
 
 
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Reply
Re: silence! ( 14:18:26 ThuApr 15 2004 )

However, I think part of the reason Rapa-nui provided the link (you can correct me if I'm wrong) was the definition of BS on the first page. :wink:

Quote: T

While I believe I became a Christian in 1992


This is a comment I hear a lot from people who have "found" God or Jesus. I'm really not trying to be mean or anything, but prior to 1992 what were you? A jew? An atheist? Some bizarre pagan cult you don't want to admit to?

Quote: T-man

I know that good works, following religious rituals and being a nice guy won't get me to heaven. It is only by His Grace and my belief in Him, will He take me there.


And what you supposedly know is the exact opposite of what I was taught in Sunday School and catachism classes and, well, church every time I go. What I was taught that everybody has a shot to go to heaven - Episcopalians, Jews, Muslims, budhist, atheist, heck - even Catholics. :biggrin: The key is to follow the Ten Commandments - you know, those rules God gave Moses on the rocks that basically say, "Be excellent to one another, dudes" - as best as you can. Even when you slip up and make a mistake, God still lets you in Heaven, as long as you say you're sorry and mean it.



Currently Listening To: You Got Another Thing Coming ~ Judas Priest



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"Chaotic action is preferable to orderly inaction." ~ Will Rogers
 
 
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